Holmes Show Segment

Dorothy Holmes, Chief Master Sergeant United States Air Force, Retired

Representative for WIMSA at AARP Biennial Convention - Denver, Colorado 1996

Q: And what are you doing here at the convention?

A: I'm representing WIMSA, I'm the field representative in the state of Colorado and we're representing Women In Military Service for the memorial that's to be built in Washington D.C. specifically at the entranceway to Arlington National Cemetery.

Q: Now there's already been a groundbreaking for this.

A: Yes, in June of 1996.

Q: And, how many women have you been able to have entered into your computer files?

A: Not very many, not as many as we'd like. We think there's over a million women that have served from time to time or are serving and we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.

Q: And so besides conventions, how else do you try to contact these people.

A: Through every media. Through every military organization throughout the country whether it's major or minor and we spread the word that way.

Q: Do you do well at, you know, a large convention like this?

A: It's hard to track but for every one that we attend, we put a stamp on it. Hopefully that it, it can be tracked later on when the applications reach WIMSA so that we know how effective we are.

Q: And how many field representatives do you have? Are all states covered?

A: Yes, there are field representatives in every state and then they, they're growing as the word gets around and there are those too that never served but they know someone that has served and they're acting as a field rep on their behalf.

Q: Have you had many gentlemen who might have had a wife pass away?

A: Yes, yes and it's sad and they are very sorry that they are passed away and didn't live to see the memorial that's going to be built in their honor and they are very supportive.

Q: Can you tell us a little about your own career, how did you start out?

A: I started out, I enlisted in the Air Force in 1949, I'm originally a Philadelphian and I was never really career or career oriented and then I wound up serving 30 years quite unexpectedly. But I never had a break and I just went straight through.

Q: What kind of jobs did you have?

A: Well at one time I was a Drill Instructor, I don't know how that would ever reflect but then I went into the Personnel Career field. I served overseas. I one time I had more over sea service then I had in the United States and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I ended my career at the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. I was helping to integrate the women into the Academy after Congress passed the act that said women could then join the military academy.

Q: How successful has it been for women in a military career?

A: It has changed tremendously because when I came in in '49, you could not be married or you could not have dependents. Later on those rules changed that said you could have dependents whether they were minor or whether they were your parents or something like that. So many things have changed. Our career fields were limited. Now we're in everything I think, but maybe five and they are somewhat combat related and we expect those barriers to fall one day.

Q: What was your last position? I understand.....

A: Last position I was special assistant to the Superintendent of the United States Air Force Academy.

Q: And what kind of job did you do? Recruits or....

A: No, these were cadets and a special group elite young leaders, future leaders in the United States I might add, because I expect any year now we'll have the first woman Air Force Academy cadet graduate will be President of the United States. That's how confident I am of the women coming through.

Q: So the changes have been for the better.

A: Oh yes and I tell the men that the more they become liberated, the more they become free. The more they hold us back, the more they hold themselves back. And those that think that women have no place in the military, all I hear them say or hear from them is there inequity because if we're left alone, we can hold our own.

Q: Do you have any great anecdote you'd like to share with us?

A: Well, I don't know how great it would be but anyway it's that we shouldn't limit anyone by gender. Everyone should be considered individually on their own merit and if you dream it, I tell the cadets, then they can do it and that the sky's the limit. In fact, we're gone beyond that, we're in space. And we're going to lead the way.

Q: I understand you were, now was this appointment the same one where you were the first woman to be appointed to to ...

A: Oh yes, I was a Chief Master Sergeant when I retired. You see, at one time the women could only be 2% of the strength of the Air Force and at that time only one woman could be a full Colonel or what we call a Bird Colonel and she held the title of Director .....an office in Washington D.C. So you see, we've come a long way since then. Women now achieve the rank of flag, flag rank and, of course, the women, enlisted women, never had the restrictions. So Chief Master Sergeant right now is the highest that you can get in the enlisted ranks and that's it.

Q: And you were also the first woman to serve 30 years right?

A: Air Force. Yes. Air Force. And I specify that because others have served 30 years but they were ex Army, ex Navy, ex something else, you see. But we didn't, we weren't born until 1947. In fact, Air Force will celebrate its 50th anniversary. So it's going to be very exciting.

Q: I guess I want you to tell me about being the National President...

. A: Yes. Last September I was elected President of the Retired Enlisted Association and the acronym is TREA and I'm the first woman to head that organization. We're about 80 thousand strong and growing.

Q: And I understand that you've been responsible for some changes because basically this was an all male...

A: Yes, that's true. That's true. But you see, someone had to be it first and I happened to be in line.

Q: OK, what kind of changes are you bringing about?

A: Oh, not so much a change as that we know that Congress has made us many promises when we enlisted into the services so consequently these things are gradually being eroded and we're fighting that and the active force is also on our side because we know it's just a matter of time that they will be retired and that we don't want to be that generation that says we let the benefit slip by. We're going to let them know that we're still serving and we're fighting and it's just a case of them joining us and we're the sister organization to TROA, The Retired Officers Association. OK.

Q: Women generally were in and out, the government thought of them that way, isn't that true.

A: That's true. That's true. You see, because years gone by, you couldn't serve if you were pregnant. If you were pregnant you had to get out. But now, as the laws have changed, you can be a single parent. And, believe it or not, there are some installations where they, the single parent is more male than female. Oddly, oddly.

Q: Do you have any last words for our audience about who to contact, what to do?

A: Yes, I think if you know the woman who's ever served, get her registered into the Memorial and it's most important that future generations know that women have served our nation since 1775 and we're still serving and we will throughout eternity.

Q: I heard you speak to someone today about being immortal and rising up.

A: That's right. That's right. Because it's going to be a computer generated memorial, the first of its kind and I think that future generations can go in and I say, ding ding on that computer and Aunt Suzy will pop up and what Aunt Suzy did and what branch of service she was in and I think they should know that.

Q: Well thank you for speaking with us today.

A: You're quite welcome, it's been my pleasure.